What if crisis care felt a little different?
In this episode, we speak with Danny, Centre Manager of Neami’s Urgent Mental Health Care Centre in Adelaide, about a different approach to supporting people experiencing mental health crisis.
At the centre, people are welcomed as guests, not patients or clients. We explore what this means in practice, from peer support and a philosophy of “care, not treatment” to a calm, lounge room-like environment where guests are recognised as the experts in their own lives.
Danny shares what happens when someone walks through the door, why the centre prioritises safety over surveillance, and how small shifts in language, environment and relationships can transform the experience of crisis.
🏠 Urgent Mental Health Care Centre
👉 https://www.neaminational.org.au/services/urgent-mental-health-care-centre/
Come and listen with:
Lucy (She/Her) – A big fan of ice cream and storytelling
Rachel (She/Her) – Social Worker, Dialogical Practitioner, mad footy fan and wildly passionate about transforming the culture of mental health services to be person-led and human rights informed.
🎨 Incredible artwork @sharleencu_art
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT – Guests, not patients.
[00:00:00] Lucy: This podcast has conversations around different mental health experiences that may be distressing for some people. If that doesn’t feel like something you want to explore today, you might want to visit another podcast and come back to us another time.
[00:00:13] Rachel: discovery college acknowledges the traditional owners of country throughout Australia and recognises their continuing connection to lands, waters and community. We pay our respects to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures and to the elders, past and present. They have never ceded sovereignty.
[00:00:32] Lucy: I’m Lucy.
[00:00:33] Rachel: And I’m Rachel and we’re the hosts of the Extremely Human podcast.
[00:00:37] Lucy: Sometimes we move through big human experiences that others might not understand, like psychosis, grief, addiction, euphoria, or moments that feel completely unreal.
[00:00:49] Rachel: On Extremely Human, we hear from people who’ve been there and share what they’ve learnt along the way.
Together we ask, how can we meet the full range of human experience with kindness and compassion?
[00:01:11] Lucy: What if there was another way to respond to mental health crisis?
In this episode, Danny from Neami’s Urgent Mental Health Care Centre in Adelaide shares a different way of responding to crisis.
Welcome back. We are still in Adelaide for another Adelaide special episode. We’re here with Danny. Thanks for coming in, Danny.
[00:01:33] Danny: My pleasure. Thanks for the invitation.
[00:01:35] Lucy: You’re so welcome. We start all episodes by asking the same question.
What’s something ordinary that’s felt beautiful to you recently?
[00:01:44] Danny: I was watching the series Goolagong. I don’t know if you’ve seen that on ABC. Three episodes and sort of the story of Evonne Goolagong. And I thought there was. There was a lot of beauty in that story, you know, as a young Aboriginal woman who went on and won Wimbledon on two occasions. But there’s. It’s just quite an amazing backstory, you know, which talks about her cultural upbringing. You know, she was such a groundbreaking person to leave the confines of. Of that safety and go overseas. And also she was a huge champion for women and, you know, was very much involved in sort of equal pay for tennis players and things. And the way she was portrayed in the, in the movie, she. She just loved playing tennis. She wasn’t. She didn’t do it for the money and, you know, the accolades and all that sort of thing. And, you know, it was really about her, what she wanted to do and then supporting her family and. Yeah, it was just. That was a really beautiful story, I guess, out of know, just playing a game, playing kind of sport that’s doing something that every. People do every day.
Yeah. So if you get a chance, have a look and see.
[00:02:50] Rachel: I definitely will now. I hadn’t Heard about it. Sounds definitely like something to watch. Yeah, thanks. Danny, can you tell us a bit about yourself and you know, who you are and your work that you do?
[00:03:02] Danny: Yeah. I’m Danny, I’m trained as an occupational therapist many years ago, for many decades ago. Like anyone, I’ve got my interests and my passions outside of work and pretty stock standard, you know, kind of gardening, cooking.
I love my music. Oh, I’ve got some sheep.
[00:03:20] Lucy: You got sheep?
[00:03:20] Danny: Yeah, got some sheep and I’ve got a ram. His name’s basil, he’s. He’s 11 years old, adorable, very friendly. Yeah. We come up, you can give me a cuddle and yeah, I’ve got a very vocal sheep. Her name’s Bonnie and she sees my car coming up the driveway and she starts barring and she thinks she’s going to get fed, doesn’t matter how much green grass there is. And she’s the spokesheep for the group and so she’ll start off and then the others will start off and then, and I hear I’ll be inside for an hour and they’re still barring. It’s like, no, not tonight guys.
I’m going to go and eat some of that dry grass out there.
[00:03:54] Rachel: I love that.
Really gave them personalities.
[00:03:58] Danny: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that’s one thing about sheep, they’re all quite different. Apparently sheep can recognize up to 50 different sheep faces.
[00:04:05] Lucy: I never know how they do the trial, like the test for this, you know.
[00:04:09] Rachel: That’s a good question.
[00:04:10] Danny: Yeah, I didn’t look into that, but
[00:04:12] Lucy: yeah, we just accept it.
[00:04:13] Danny: And they recognize human faces too, apparently. Well, they certainly recognize mine.
[00:04:18] Rachel: So you’ve been in mental health for a while and where are you now in your work?
[00:04:23] Danny: So now I’m working for an organization called Neami. It’s a national organization that provides mental health support services around Australia.
The service I work at is called the Urgent Mental Health Care Centre in Adelaide.
[00:04:36] Lucy: Can you tell us more about that and sort of how it came about?
[00:04:40] Danny: So the Urgent Mental Healthcare Centre is a very unique service. We are based in the centre of Adelaide in the CBD and it is a mental health crisis support Service. We’re open 24 hours a day, seven days a week, never close. And it’s a free service and people can turn up from anywhere. So as long as you’re 16 and above, you can access our service. We don’t have an upper age kind of limit. We do take formal referrals from EDs and police and ambulance, but most people walk into our service about 80% of the people that we see. So you don’t need a referral. You don’t need to ring ahead. You can literally just turn up. If you’re having the worst day, you can come and get support straight away. So I was talking to one of our lived experience workers the other day and asking them about, you know, when you first came here, what was it like? He was one of the first employees, and, yeah, he was saying that, you know, they had to kind of sit around and decide what colors they were going to paint the building and, you know, looked at a lot of information, such as trauma, informed language, what we’re going to, you know, call certain things. So, for example, slightly unusual. We don’t have a nurses station in our main sort of lounge area where people receive support. We have what we call recovery island. So which, you know, it feels much nicer kind of and, you know, kind of thing. But. And just the whole design of the environment and the building was really key as well, you know, to that, to designing a center or that wasn’t going to look like a clinic. It was going to be something different, not, you know, sterile and beige walls and security screens and, you know, cameras and all those sorts of things. So, yeah. So the environment, I think, is a really key part of the urgent mental health care center.
[00:06:34] Lucy: Yeah. Would you be able to talk us through what it looks like? Like, some of the things that are a bit different in there, in the physical space?
[00:06:41] Danny: When people come in to our service and, you know, right in the CBD of Adelaide, it is open 24 hours a day. Overnight, the door will be locked and people can ring a doorbell to get access. But during the day, it’s just open and anyone can kind of walk in. So I think that that’s quite unique in itself. But from the beginning, when people walk in on that first impression, you know, there’s a nice feeling in the environment. The colors are nice tones. The main feature of the service is the big kind of lounge room area. So once people come through reception and they have a welcome process and do some paperwork and things, they’ll get a chance to go through the big sliding door. Everything’s. Oh, what’s behind that sliding door? And then it opens up and there’s quite a large. What we call a lounge.
And this is really based off the model recovery innovations sort of developed in America, where they run these little lounge, our dream style crisis centers. Within our lounge, we have a whole lot of recliners, very comfortable, big sort of plush recliners you know, the phrase that comes to mind for me is often feels like a library where it seems calm and, you know, there’s some soft music playing and you think, what’s happening? And I think there’s not many people here, but actually, oh, there are six people here. There’s people inside rooms or, you know, people working with other staff. So it’s just a very welcoming space and I think that’s really important. You know, people are coming into the center in distress, maybe on their worst day.
So to be can, you know, to be able to come somewhere where immediately they can just start to decompress and relax. Within our lounge room as well, there’s some picnic tables where there’s just activities that people can just engage with straight away. We do have options for people to have snacks and meals and, you know, showers and things like that. Absolutely. Encourage people to bring whoever they want with them and whoever they would like to be involved in their journey through the urgent mental health care centre. That’s very much up to the guests. If they bring a family member or they might have a support worker they’re working with, people can actually bring their children or their pets as well. So kind of another little point of difference. So we’ve had examples where someone’s rung up and said, look, I’m feeling really at the end of it, but I’ve got my two kids with me and I don’t know what to do. And we’ll say, bring them in, come into our service and we’ll find a space and work with you and we’ll try and manage the situation and support your kids.
And yeah, a lot of services wouldn’t be able to be flexible enough to do that. And sometimes I thought, geez, you know, other issues we need to be thinking about how, you know, protecting young children in that sort of environment. So we have a particular room that families will use that we, you know, we sort of provide extra support and.
But similarly, if someone is at home and they ring up and say, oh, you know, I’d love to come in, but I’ve got my dog and I want to leave my dog, we’ll say, bring your dog in.
We have a room that’s got a sort of vinyl floor which is our.
[00:09:35] Rachel: The wet area.
[00:09:36] Danny: Yeah, the wet area. And we should have a pet assessment, which I think is quite cool. So as long as the pet, whatever it is, isn’t too reactive. But we have had a range of different animals that people have brought in, birds and guinea pigs and dogs and
[00:09:48] Lucy: yeah, such A nice unique thing to be able to offer and just take away so many barriers for people.
[00:09:54] Danny: Yeah, generally it’s just the space. It’s a nice feeling. It’s very different to going into an ED or sitting in a very crowded, you know, community mental health service where there’s sort of barriers in front of you and glass barriers and things like that. So we don’t have anything like that. We actually don’t have any security cameras inside our building.
And that’s really important part of our model. So the principle that we operate from there is safety, not surveillance. So if we feel like something’s happening, we’ll go and engage with the person and try and connect with them and work out what’s happening. We’re not going to sit there and observe them on a camera. The only cameras we have in our center, there’s one external facing one at the front and the back of the building. And that’s just so people can see what’s happening outside on the street, on a 2 o’ clock on a Saturday morning type of thing. Because, you know, we have to still manage safety. That’s a key principle too.
[00:10:49] Rachel: So I heard you reference the people that come as guests.
Does that mean you refer to this, the team, as staff, as hosts?
[00:11:00] Danny: Oh, that’s a good question.
No, we don’t. Yeah, but that’s. I’m going to think about that.
The term guest, though, I think is really powerful.
[00:11:09] Rachel: I really like it.
[00:11:10] Danny: Yeah. And it’s very much a term that Nemo has adopted to use when we’re talking about, you know, working in the sector. There’s been consumers, there’s been clients, there’s participants, there’s, you know, people. People are people, ultimately. But I like the idea of guests because it really flips things on its head.
[00:11:28] Lucy: But yeah, it feels really inviting.
You’re in a state where you need some help and you want to feel like it’s a place where you are welcomed in and, and to receive care. And the word guest has that connotation for me.
[00:11:41] Rachel: I think of guest and I, you know, think about when I have a guest, I think of my responsibility to host their experience and I have to figure out how to do that well. So that kind of what guest is why guest is powerful for me.
[00:11:59] Danny: I think that’s exactly it. People are coming to the service and we often talk about the idea too, of care, not treatment. If you’re going to a hotel as a guest, you expect to be treated well and looked after. And so I think having those little key Phrases. I mean, for example, another term that we use quite a lot is the term friendly faces. And so friendly face is someone who’s using our service regularly. There’s been lots of pretty negative labels around to describe people who, who might need to use services regularly or, you know, the high service users or whatever team you use. But I like the term friendly faces. So again, it sort of just flips things on its head a bit. And you know, we know people turn up to a service because they need something whether they were there the day before or the week before. It’s kind of the beauty of this model as well, where we don’t actually provide any case management, ongoing support for people. It is literally a crisis center meeting people where they’re at on their worst day. People can stay within our service for 24 hours. So within that time, you know, that we work to help people regulate emotionally, try and work out what’s happening for them, what is the pressing need. I mean, people have lots of needs, but what is it that’s brought you here today?
And then we’ll look to how do we help you with the next step? Can we refer you somewhere? What’s missing? Maybe, you know, the person’s already got support but they’re not seeing their psychiatrist for another week or something like that, you know, we can help sort of hold that person. So most people actually come to the service between, at the moment. The last monthly data was between four and six hours, you know, and we did some kind of data crunching around this idea. So if someone comes to the urgent mental health care center and they were there for six hours, they’re probably physically engaged with someone for three to four of those hours. So it’s a really high engagement model, connection with people. If you’re in needy for six hours, you might see someone for 15 minutes, if that, or you could be there a lot longer and someone’s checking in every few hours. So no criticism to eds. EDS absolutely have their place and we know that. But we also know there’s people who go to EDS in a mental health crisis and sit there and often leave, you know, maybe with not a lot of support or, you know. So we do a lot of work with the EDS here in Adelaide, encouraging referrals from their emergency departments. Yeah. And with the ambulance crews as well, you know, to bring people to the urgent mental health care center or at least raise it as an option if you’re coming to a mental health service for the first time, if anything, if we can give that person a good experience. And make them more likely they’re going to seek help again. That’s a great outcome.
And how do you measure that? You know, we often measure. For me, the best measurement is the qualitative feedback.
[00:15:02] Lucy: Can we hear some of the feedback that you’ve received?
[00:15:05] Danny: Absolutely.
So this person has written, the person on the front desk was exceptionally calm and kind. The clinician and the peer worker were wonderful in making sure I felt safe and comfortable. I was nervous, I was terrified, I was ashamed to be needing this service, but they put that at ease with excellent manner and empathy. I present as a sensible, well spoken, calm person. But I was so distressed that night that although I may not have appeared as bad as I felt, I felt they understood and listened.
You know, I think that kind of demonstrates that idea that the fear people approach services with not sure what’s going to happen actually, am I that bad to be here? Am I taking a spot from someone else? But we don’t judge that. You know, if you’re not feeling great, you’re feeling in a crisis, that’s what we’re interested in. And how do we support you? It’s not like, you know, there’s not like a sliding scale of how bad a crisis can be or some kind of competitive thing.
So, you know, I mean, this, this type of feedback and get these sorts of themes coming through. Every single person I interacted with did so in a gentle way and they gave me so much time to talk. They seemed to have all the time I needed and I never felt rushed. They gave me so much great advice, very thoughtful and genuine people. The peer workers are especially brilliant. It was humanizing, not pathologizing.
[00:16:24] Lucy: Oh, that’s amazing.
[00:16:26] Danny: We see people from anywhere. It’s another one of the aspects of the service model that I really like. We don’t have a defined catchment area.
We see people from across Metro Adelaide, regional areas, people from interstate. We’ve had overseas visitors who found us and come and sought support from. Our service is just fantastic as well. I mean, a lot of, you know, services and funding contracts, they’ll have a defined catchment and, oh, sorry, you’re in the wrong suburb, we can’t help you, so we don’t turn anyone away. And it’s free.
You don’t need a Medicare card. We’re not going to ask you for, you know, your citizenship or anything like that. We’re just going to be focused on is a person who needs help. And there’s a bit of feedback here, which I thought was quite nice as well.
With all my family Overseas. I really struggle during the bad seasons with not having anywhere to go even for just a couple. I’ve often felt I had nowhere to go.
I had had such a bad few weeks and. And that Sunday I asked my husband to bring me to the urgent mental healthcare centre. Not knowing what to expect.
It was exactly what I needed. Even the waiting area was calm, the staff there barely spoke. It was nice and quiet. I felt like a fraud and almost left a couple of times, but I’m glad I didn’t. I’m sorry but I forgot the social worker’s name. She was awesome and I’m still telling myself that no one is chasing me and this is just, just a season and it will pass. It’s a pity we couldn’t replicate extend this service into a make believe kitchen or lounge room or cafe or somewhere to go on the bad mornings. Thank you all so much. I felt heard.
P.S. the laminated box of memes were the best. I took four and wish I took more but other than, you know, that’s really cool. A lot of themes coming through for that person’s feedback. And we see a lot of people who’ve never used a mental health service before and they’ve taken a risk to come to our service. And one example sticks in my mind of an older gentleman, he was about 70 years old and he’d never gone anywhere for help, you know, not only even went to a GP, so the fact that he even found us and turned up was amazing. So we are seeing, as I might have said before, five to 600 people a month coming through our service, we ask all of those people, where would have you gone if this service didn’t exist, if there was no urgent mental health care center and if we had say 500 responses, we’d get about 200 people telling us I would have gone to an ED, another 150 would have would tell us I wouldn’t know where to go and another 150 or so I wouldn’t have sought support. So you think where would have these people gone? So we get a lot of people telling us they would have gone to an ED thing. Well, they didn’t, they’ve come here instead. So that’s a good outcome.
[00:19:14] Rachel: You said something earlier, I just am curious to hear you say a bit more about which was our idea is care not treatment. Can you say more about that?
[00:19:24] Danny: Yeah. We’re not in the business of doing things to people when they come into the urgent mental health care centre.
Even though we’ve got a medication license, we have medical staff on most shifts who could prescribe. It’s kind of not the first point of call, you know, our first point of call is about engaging with people. It’s through that, that people then feel safe to open up about what’s happening for them, you know, to be able to talk about the deepest fears or what’s brought them into the service. So certainly in the past have been in situations where someone might mention the idea of suicidal ideation or they’ve been having some suicidal thoughts, for example, and they can easily be a knee jerk reaction to that and you think, oh, this person needs an admission, they need to be in hospital, we need to sedate them.
And often that is about the, the work is fear of, you know, what’s going to happen, what’s my duty of care, am I going to lose my nursing license or, you know, whatever it is.
So being able to try and sort of put that aside, but really focus on the person and say, hey, if someone’s got suicidal ideation, they’re talking about that, that’s a good thing. The care, not treatment is very much about the approach. It’s very humanistic, it’s about our mindset, it’s about how we engage with people.
We want people to as much as possible be in control of what’s happening for them in the service. We’re not going to make decisions for them, we’re not going to tell them what to do.
[00:20:46] Rachel: I’m sure there’s not one thing or one way it might look, but what might happen for a guest in those five to six hours while they’re there?
[00:20:55] Danny: Yeah, we talk about a guest journey. So if people turn up to the urgent mental healthcare centre, they’ll come into reception during the day. We have two people at the front in our reception area and one of them is a lived experience worker will greet people when they come in. So right from the outset there’s peer first kind of peer first, peer last. One of our catchphrases. The lived experience worker will be involved in the welcome process, usually with one of our nurses, because there’s some kind of general health questions.
And then once people go through that process, they’re invited up into the lounge room area and it’s really up to the guests then, you know, whatever they need at the time. So if they haven’t slept for two days and they’re just feeling not great, they can have something to eat, they can have something to drink, they can just settle themselves. If they need a shower, they can have a shower. If their clothes are disheveled, we can provide some clothing and again, all that is free.
So yeah, I often think of Maslow’s hierarchy of basic needs that and it’s really up to the guests. The guests will tell us what they need. Some people want to start talking straight away.
They’ve got stuff they just need to get off their chest. Other people need some downtime first or they might want to engage in some coloring or some distraction or something. So it’s really up to the guest to guide about what happens there.
I guess we’re pretty honest and pretty upfront with people when they come in. It is largely a sort of talk therapy and relational type of model that we operate from.
So we do have some expectation that people are able to engage and willing to engage with that. So we’re not just a drop in center.
We don’t invite people to just to come and hang out. There’s a purpose. You know, people are coming in crisis, so go through the welcome that basic needs stuff. And every guest is offered a clinical assessment or an assessment with a clinician.
And really the way we try to do that is very narrative. It’s a very conversational approach and it’s quite interesting because our guests will tell different people different things. At some point there’ll be a bit of a huddle where everyone kind of gets together.
Guests can be involved in that as well and they just share about what you know, what they’ve learned, what they’ve discussed, if there’s any particular risk or safety issues that might need to be addressed. Again, being pretty upfront with the guest about that, really putting the ball in their core. We’re here to support them, how they’d like us to sort of move through with these issues, these might be our concerns, etc. It’s a very collaborative process.
So you know, there’s elements where you think, oh, well, that’s what might happen in a traditional sort of setting, in mental health setting. But it’s really about the way it’s done.
It’s done thoughtfully, it’s done respectfully, it’s done with the guests seen as the expert in their own care. When someone is feeling ready to leave, like, you know, those conversations start to happen. What is the next step? Where are they going to go? So we would redirect people where appropriate and that’s usually done with the guest consent and they’re very involved in that process.
But for most people they go home and I think that’s a great outcome. If you can go back to your home where you feel most comfortable.
And it’s about a 50, 50 split. People will either go home with support or go, you know, go home alone, because a lot of people live alone. So that’s all part of the safety planning, part of the exit planning. What is the person’s next step? What are they going to do tomorrow? So we will provide as much information we can as possible about what is available to them in the community.
And, you know, where people are presenting with really complex needs, and particularly if they don’t have any other support in place, then we will make formal referral. You know, a lot of people don’t have GP’s, even just setting up a GP for someone, referring someone to a government psychosocial support package where they can get, you know, 10, 15 hours support a week. But everyone will leave with the information pack that’s designed for them about where they can go to next and what the next step is, and get a lot of feedback about that too. Where people say, I just came in such a state, but when I left, I had a much better understanding of what was happening for me and what I needed to do next, you know, And I think, well, that’s. That’s really good. And people can. They’re welcome to come back. Like, the way that we think about a mental health crisis is defined by the guests. We don’t define that. So, you know, someone might be appearing quite calm and you’re gonna think, well, that person’s not in crisis. Well, they’re telling us they’re in crisis. And so, you know, people present differently. Some people’s presentation in crisis is to be calm or they might literally be kind of frozen with their own fear. Yeah. Other people are more elevated and, you know, maybe expressing more emotion and so. But that’s fine. And we do have people who represent. That’s fine.
Gives us a chance to get to know them better. And if we do have someone who’s coming sort of regularly, we do build a bit more of a care plan for that person and to inform our staff and, you know, reduce the amount of times they’ve got to tell their story or that type of thing is really important as well.
[00:25:56] Lucy: Thank you so much, Danny, for talking us through all the exciting work that’s happening in Adelaide. I feel like Melbourne has lots to learn from the work you’re doing. Hopefully we can follow in your footsteps. But we do have a closing question for everyone. So can you tell us about an active care, big or small, that’s really stayed with you?
[00:26:18] Danny: One day I was in the reception area at the Urgent Mental Health Care Centre. And a gentleman walked in and he approached the reception desk and he said to the worker who happened to be our greeting peer worker at the time and he said to the worker, oh, I’m carrying a weapon, do I need to let you know?
And the worker just, without batting an eyelid, just looked at him and said, oh, thank you, thanks for letting us know. Just take a seat there and we’ll work out what we need to do something like that. Anyway, as it transpired, this person was really unwell. They were very, very unwell to the point where they actually needed to go to hospital.
And yeah, during the, we didn’t know if they were carrying a weapon or not, but it turned out they were.
And you know, the, we did contact the police who came and worked with the gentleman and kind of moved on and there was a really good outcome. But what stuck with me was just that peer workers response. And I went back to them later and I said, you know, you know, what was going through your mind when that gentleman came up to the reception desk? And she just said, oh yeah, well you know, risk and safety issues were in the back of my mind. But she thought, she said just he just needed someone to be compassionate and the fact that he had just approached and the way he’d spoken, she said, oh, you know, could easily escalate someone in that type of situation.
So she said, I just thought he came for help. I’m just going to be provide help and start from that really gentle kind of compassionate response.
[00:27:58] Lucy: That’s gold.
[00:27:59] Rachel: Danny, it’s been amazing to hear of your great work in the center and all of your team and other hosts. I mean extremely Human is all about recognizing the human experience, whatever that is, and kind of really encouraging or promoting compassionate and caring responses to people in whatever state they’re in. And that feels like you represent that really well at this point.
[00:28:28] Danny: That’s good. I’m glad that’s come across. And it’s very much, I think the agent Mental health care center is all about that.
It is, people are people and you know, we’re going to meet people as people and they’re not just someone who’s having a problem that we’re going to put in a box and do stuff to. It’s yeah, this person’s coming here and let’s work in that more humane sort of way. So why isn’t everyone else doing this now?
[00:28:51] Rachel: Well, this is a start of getting it out there, I think. Yeah, we would love to put some notes in the show Notes where people can find more information and read up and link in with you. So thank you again for your time today.
[00:29:04] Danny: Thanks for the opportunity. It’s been fantastic.
[00:29:17] Rachel: discovery college acknowledges that the views shared in this podcast reflect personal experiences and are not a substitute for professional mental health advice. They do not represent the views of Alfred Health.
[00:29:29] Lucy: Thank you for listening to our podcast. If you wanted to stay in touch or learn more about discovery college, please head to our website, discovery.college.